The Bitter Taste of Dreams = Come True | Print Article

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The Bitter Taste of Dreams Come True

Author Amos Oz speaks on Israel and Palestine, the dream of Zionism = and how=20 politicians listen to artists and then forget everything they're = told.

By Joanna=20 Chen

Newsweek Web Exclusive

Updated: 5:49 PM ET Feb 14, = 2008

Amos Oz is an Israeli author of international acclaim whose works = have been=20 translated into more than 45 languages. In May, along with playwright = Tom=20 Stoppard and former U.S. vice president Al Gore, he will receive the Dan = David=20 Award, totaling $3 million. Oz, 69, who teaches literature at Ben Gurion = University in southern Israel, was cited by the judges for "portraying=20 historical events while emphasizing the individual and for personal = exploration=20 of the tragic conflict between two nations." A founding member of the = Peace Now=20 Movement, Oz has always been at the forefront of the Israeli struggle = for=20 identity and a staunch advocate of a two-state solution. He recently = spoke to=20 NEWSWEEK's Joanna Chen at his home in Tel Aviv about literature, = politics and=20 voices of the dead that won't go away.

NEWSWEEK: What do you think makes your writing so accessible = to=20 people all over the world?
Amos Oz: I suppose there is = something=20 universal in the provincial. My books are very local, but in a strange = way I=20 find that the more local, parochial and provincial, the more universal=20 literature can be.

Why have so few of your books been translated into = Arabic?=20
The Arabic translation matters to me more than any other. It's the = one I=20 feel involved in most. Unfortunately, there is a wall of resistance with = the=20 Arab countries. Many Arab publishers won't touch anything coming from = Israel,=20 whether it comes from the hawks or the doves.

What have you done to remedy this?
"A Tale of = Love and=20 Darkness" is now being translated into Arabic by the family of George = Khoury, a=20 Palestinian-Israeli student who was shot in the head by terrorists who = mistook=20 him for a Jew while jogging in Jerusalem. I'm very moved by this and by = the very=20 noble decision of the family to treat this book as a bridge between the=20 nations.

What role do you think the past plays in determining the = future of=20 this region?
The past almost dominates this = region=E2=80=94it doesn't just=20 play a role. I think this is one of the tragedies of this region. People = remember too well and they remember too much. Both Jews and Arabs carry = deep=20 injuries, dramatic injuries.

Should the two sides put these memories away and get on with=20 correcting the present?
We can do that. We can also use our = memories as building material for the future. We can say, for example, = these=20 particular traumatic memories [serve as] a lesson in how to treat other = people,=20 how we should treat our own minorities. This is one way to deal with the = past.

You've talked about a compromise of pain and clenched teeth. = Can't=20 there be a happy ending?
No, I don't believe in a happy = ending to=20 this kind of tragic conflict. Essentially because this is a conflict = between=20 right and right. Any compromise will mean concession; it will mean = renouncing=20 something which both parties very strongly regard as their own, and both = parties=20 had very good reasons to regard as their own, so a compromise will be = like an=20 amputation for both sides. There are no happy compromises.

What used to be a local confrontation between the Arab and = the Jew=20 has become a global affair.
When I was a child it was = rather=20 similar to the conflict in Belfast: a neighborhood against another = neighborhood.=20 It evolved into a large-scale conflict between Israel and parts of the = Arab=20 world, and unfortunately this coincides with a conflict between the West = and=20 Islam. Let me immediately add that I don't believe in the clash of=20 civilizations. It's not about Islam versus Christianity. It's not about = East=20 versus West. It's about the fanatics versus the rest of us.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert invited you to his house last = year. What=20 did you discuss?
I'm not going into the details, because it = was a=20 private conversation, but I can tell you that this is a very common = practice in=20 this country. Prime ministers invite writers and poets for a = soul-searching=20 t=C3=AAte-=C3=A0-t=C3=AAte and ask them where the country has gone = wrong. And they admire the=20 writer's answers and ignore them completely.

Do you think writers still express the social conscience of = the=20 people?
There is a long-standing expectation in the Jewish = tradition=20 that the writer and the poet will somehow be the heir of the prophet. Of = course,=20 no writer can deliver this, and even prophets were not very successful = in their=20 day in changing the minds of the people. But the expectation exists.

You've spoken out against the threatened Israeli invasion of = the Gaza=20 Strip.
By doing so we will unite the entire Palestinian = people and=20 perhaps the entire Arab world around Hamas. It will raise public opinion = for=20 Hamas. If we are not careful we will achieve this consequence. It hasn't = happened yet, but it might.

What do you think the people on both sides really=20 want?
The vast majority of the Israeli Jews and the vast = majority of=20 the Palestinian Arabs know now that at the end of the day there will be = two=20 states, two capital cities in Jerusalem, no massive return of refugees = into=20 Israel proper and a removal of most of the settlements. They know it, = even=20 people on both sides who don't like it.

Is the Zionist project still alive and kicking? =
I think=20 it's a success story, but like any dream that comes true it tastes = bitter. The=20 only way to keep a dream rosy and intact is never to try to live it out. = This is=20 true not only of creating a nation. This is true of writing a novel, = planting a=20 garden, living out a sexual fantasy. Zionism is lived out, and as such = it is=20 disappointing. But this is not about the nature of Zionism; this is = about the=20 nature of dreams.

Do you think America is helping the peace process? =
Yes.=20 I would like to see the U.S. seriously encouraging Israel to make the = necessary=20 concessions for a peace agreement with the Palestinians. Encouraging = Israel also=20 means reassuring Israel. Israel will have to take huge risks by = renouncing the=20 occupied territories, by renouncing some of its defenses. In this = respect not=20 only the U.S. but the entire world would help both sides by extending as = much=20 empathy to both as possible.

What do you think of the Iranian threat?
I'm = afraid that=20 in 10 or 15 years from now every country that wants it will have the = means of=20 mass destruction, so the campaign against Iran is a lost case. I am = personally=20 more nervous about Pakistan than I am about Iran. Pakistan is a nuclear = state=20 with a very powerful Islamic movement, so I am more nervous about = Pakistan than=20 I am about Iran.

Do you have literary favorites?
I don't have a = shelf=20 with beloved masterpieces, but Anton Chekhov is very close to my heart, = perhaps=20 the closest. He makes me laugh and cry, sometimes he makes me laugh and = cry at=20 the same time, which is what I tried to do in "A Tale of Love and = Darkness": to=20 erase the line between tragedy and comedy. I no longer believe that = tragedy and=20 comedy are two different planets. They are just two different windows = from which=20 we can view the same landscape of our lives.

How do you plan your books?
I don't plan them. = It's=20 sudden. I hear some voices inside my head, voices of characters, voices = of=20 people. I don't know who those people are, but they talk inside my head, = and I=20 don't recognize those voices initially. Eventually, if they stay with me = for=20 long enough I become familiar with them. And gradually the voices become = characters, and what they do to each other is the plot. But it always = begins=20 with an assembly of voices.

Your mother committed suicide = when=20 you were a child. Do you ever hear her voice?
Sometimes, = yes. I very=20 often hear the voices of dead people. Dead people are very important to = me.

What if a person doesn't want to hear the voices of dead=20 people?
Not hearing those voices is missing part of = yourself, part=20 of your life. When I wrote "A Tale of Love and Darkness" I was inviting = the dead=20 to my home for coffee. I said to them, "Sit down. Let's have a cup of = coffee and=20 talk. When you were alive we didn't talk much. We talked about politics = and=20 current affairs, but we didn't talk about things that matter =E2=80=A6 = And after the=20 talk and the coffee you'll go away. You're not staying to live in my = home. But=20 you are invited to drop by from time to time for a cup of coffee." This = in my=20 view is the right way to treat the dead.

You wrote that as a child you wanted to grow up to be a book. = Is a=20 book more enduring than a person?
It was a matter of = personal=20 safety. I was afraid. I was a terrified little child. Rumors were = beginning to=20 come to Jerusalem at the beginning of the 1940's about the mass murder = of the=20 Jews in Europe. The air was full of premonitions about the same destiny = awaiting=20 the Jews of Jerusalem. I thought it would be safer to grow up and become = a book=20 than to become a man, because as a book at least a copy of me would = survive in=20 some far-away library in some far-away country.

URL: http://www.newsweek.com/id/111803